CONTAINER DIARIES

September 18, 2008

PROTECT YOUR TURF

Filed under: Blog — hoopscoach @ 8:46 pm
Tags: , , , , ,

A few loyal readers and good friends have brought to my attention an article written about the neighborhood by Lynne Miller of the Daily News. Take a look for yourself and you decide.

Ms. Miller says,

We’d heard about Farrell’s – it was featured in the movie “As Good as It Gets” – so my husband and I stopped in there one night. It’s an authentic guys bar. Just about everybody was male and everybody seemed to be drinking beer in tall white foam cups. Farrell’s smells like beer, has a hardwood floor, and neon Budweiser signs and an American flag in the windows. I am not a guy and not a beer drinker but I ordered beer to fit in. That was our one and only visit to Farrell’s. It’s not my cup of tea – or beer.

Oh my God! No she didn’t!

Everybody seemed to be drinking beer in TALL WHITE FOAM CUPS?

HA!

Then she states, “That was our one and only visit to Farrell’s. It’s not my cup of tea – or beer.”

Wow, Miss Miller, too bad honey, but what did you expect in a bar? I’m sure your presence is missed.

I wish she would’ve done her homework/research on the history of Farrell’s before she wrote her piece. “As Good as It Gets?” Is that the best she could come up with?

Ladies and Gentlemen, children of all ages, I give you my wife, Mary with a guest POV.

My husband Steven asked me to read Ms. Miller’s article about the neighborhood and wanted my reaction. While I didn’t grow up in Windsor Terrace, I lived there for about 5 years. I absolutely loved this neighborhood just as it was. Why is it essential to have a DUB sandwich shop, retail wine store, and the like to be appealing to families, singles, retirees, whatever demographic?

Institutions like Farrell’s and their survival are critical to the history that is so deeply entrenched in a neighborhood like Windsor Terrace. I moved here to feel as though I were a part of a brotherhood, so to speak, a place where you felt safe and I felt safe in the Terrace. It wasn’t a utopia but it was a home for me and more of a home than I ever felt in any apartment I occupied in Manhattan.

Don’t get me wrong, I love fine food and wine, I love beautiful clothing and cool home furnishing stores, but I could always find them within a reasonable proximity to the neighborhood.

I know the idea of gentrification of Windsor Terrace makes it more appealing Ms. Miller, but why can’t she find pleasure in merely having a sandwich from Pierre’s instead?

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103 Comments »

  1. So glad to see this up on the blog, I was getting agita reading this on the way to work today. “For that matter, we had no reason to patronize the old Western Union store……. When it closed, I cheered.” What a condescending, patronizing tone.
    The people who use Western Union stores/check cashing places are poor people. I guess there are just not enough of them left in the neighborhood thanks to people like this writer. It is a miracle Windsor Terrace managed to stumble along until she and her ilk stepped in to show us how it’s done. I was so happy to read that we are “an up and coming neighborhood”
    Another bright observation – FARRELL’S SMELLS LIKE BEER!!!!
    I have so much more to say, but I will have to come back.

    Comment by Maureen Rice (Flanagan) — September 18, 2008 @ 9:02 pm | Reply

  2. Mo-

    Unreal! What a fine writer she is huh?

    ‘An up and coming neighborhood’? Did i read that correctly?

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 18, 2008 @ 9:47 pm | Reply

  3. I KNEW IT RUBBED PEOPLE THE WRONG WAY AS SOON AS I READ IT. THERE COMING UP FROM SOUTH SLOPE TO SAVE WINDSOR TERRCE WITH THIER CAFE VINO TASTING RESTURANT WELL IT PISS ME OFF SHE;S IN THE HOOD 5 YEAYS COME ON. THANKS RED 4 PUTTING THIS UP IM SURE WE;LL GET MORE FEED BACK FARRELLS BEEN IN BUSNESS FOR 75YEARS LETS SEE HOW LONG SHE THERE

    Comment by corrado — September 19, 2008 @ 5:26 am | Reply

  4. Just imagine if she would of been around when she could only get in on Sunday and she would have had to sit in the booth.
    I do agree about one thing though.
    The beer taste better in the old cardboard containers,styrofoam sucks.
    The women obviously has no sense for neighborhood.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 19, 2008 @ 5:33 am | Reply

  5. These gentrifiers or occupiers are such elitists. They move into our neighborhood as if they are doing us a favor and then pass judgement. Ms. Miller doesn’t understand that the reason(s) why the neighborhood has become the way it is today. Hard working middle class people that lived in this neighborhood and frequented such places as Farrell’s kept this neighborhood safe. These same people may not have gone on to a higher education but a lot of them did. The point that I am driving at is that it was these very same people that kept the area of Windsor Terrace nice so that the area became attractive to outsiders like Ms. Miller to come into this area and live. If one was to live in the neighborhood 20-25 years ago there was a more sense of community. When people walked out of their homes they said hello to their neighbors. Today there is a Manhattan-like attitude that it seems Ms. Miller would like to see more of. I do not want the likes of these outsiders here. Their kids often times go to schools such as Berkely-Carroll, Packer, St. Ann’s and Poly Prep and forget about the local schools and the kids from the area. They go to the restaurants out of our area and down to the Heights, Park Slope, Smith Street, and Manhattan. They only ‘sleep” in our community for they were able to afford a home at 1 million plus instead of 3 million plus for if they could have afforded more then they would chose to live amongst their own people that they strive to be then to “settle” in Windsor Terrace.. If Denis and Pete Hamill can write about Farrell’s with admiration then that’s all I need to know for they did not forget where they came from and did not look down on people the way that these elitists do. What Ms. Miller thinks of the Farrell’s or anything else that is tradition from the “old Windsor Terrace neighborhood” is I’ll say “That and a metro card will get me on the subway” If you don’t like our community then they will always have the choice to go back to where they came from. Often times Iowa. They move to NY and think they are an expert on what makes NY. They probably watched too much TV growing up and saw NYC in the wrong light.

    Comment by Brooklin — September 19, 2008 @ 7:49 am | Reply

  6. Thats the problem with these people. I’m not saying I’m opposed to change but when they try to Yuppyize every freakin neighborhood it sticks in my craw.
    Go down to 7th ave.
    Parkslope doesn’t need saving. It’s one of the finest areas in the five boros

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 19, 2008 @ 8:01 am | Reply

  7. In the words of my good friend Chris Dickens, ‘She’s a mess’!

    Let’s see if she has the courage to come on the comments board and share her experience with us?

    It sucks that journalism (and society as a whole) has to be so negative/cynical about things.

    Did she do any research on Hoolie? What this man has done for the community?

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 19, 2008 @ 8:39 am | Reply

  8. Coach, brillant prose by your wife Mary!

    Well, I guess we should now all genuflect and bow our heads in prayer to acknowledge that the good Lord has sent these “outsiders” to save the neighborhood. What a surprise, a yuppie without a clue. She must think that her and the rest of her kind are the new age explorers. Is she Columbus reveling in discovering the New World? Perhaps she is Cortez or even Vasco da Gama. Well, dear do us all a favor. Unlike the first New World explorers, don’t destroy what you’ve found here! Instead try and live in harmony with it. This neighborhood may lack some of the creature comforts that you and you pals crave but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are what the masses want ans that they would make the neighborhood a better place.

    As for Farrell’s comments, personally I do not find it hard to believe that this hack of a “writer” does not understand the meaning of this venerable instituion. She has a rather pedestrian view of this wonderful neighborhood. She’s merely stopped by Farrell’s but I doubt that she tried to get to know the real denizens of the neighborhood.

    To her, I’d say that Farrell’s is so much more than a bar. Farrell’s is an integral part of this vibrant, colorful neighborhood. Not to sound blasphemous, but to me Farrell’s is more like a revered cathedral than a bar. In fact as a young man I often referred to Farrell’s as the Catherdal on 9th Avenue. I’ll admit that calling it a Cathedral may be a bit over the top. So, I’ll say that it is more like a Town Hall. Want to know what real people think about sports, politics, the economy, the environment or any other topic? Well, this is as good a place as any to pose your questions. Like at any fine institution of higher learning there is no shortage of opinion on any issue that you’d care to bring up.

    Farrell’s more importantly is a meeting place. A place where friends & family gather for innumerable reasons. We come from down the block, across state lines and across the country to Farrell’s. We come to celebrate birthday’s, engagements and weddings. Many of us even met the person that we married during a visit to Farrell’s. We come to Farrell’s to congratulate the winners and console the losers. We come to honor those friends and loved ones that have passed on (many before their time) like our 911 Heroes. In a sense, a trip to Farrell’s was a rite of passage for most of us growing up in the neighborhood.

    When you come to Farrell’s, come to drink in all that is right about the neighborhood. Come to learn about the people and the history. Then and only then can you really be qualified to give an opinion on the matter. If you came from the neighborhood you’d already know that Cheers had nothing on Farrell’s. We’ve seen more comedy brought to life in there than you could possibly imagine. The great Jim Valvano said that you should do three things every day. He said that you should; laugh, think and have your emotions moved to tears (which could be either tears of joy or sadness). I guarantee that by going to Farrell’s you could experience life just in that manner any day of the week.

    As an oenophile, she should know that you don’t just judge a wine on one aspect. Look at the sight, smell & taste before you make your determination. Obviously, she didn’t do that.

    Like Forrest Gump would say, “That’s all I have to say about that.”

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 19, 2008 @ 8:50 am | Reply

  9. Jerry,

    From now on, I’m going to call you, Chris Matthews, Keith Olberman, Anderson Cooper, Glen Beck or…?

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 19, 2008 @ 9:11 am | Reply

  10. All I know is that everyone I have spoken to from cops, craftsmen, lawyers to Wall Streeters know Farell’s. When I want to gdescribe the area I grew up, Holy Name, Bishop Ford, does not resonate with them. Farrells does and it alomost always leads to a question and a statement,” Do they still serve the containers?’ and ” That’s the best beer I’ve ever had!”.
    Some people just don’t get understated class!!! It is more than a bar, it is the center of a great community of people. While there is an influx of people that don’t fit the rest of the block, there are some that do.

    Comment by jim vackner — September 19, 2008 @ 10:00 am | Reply

  11. There is a positive side to everything…maybe the failure of Lehman, AIG, the banks and the greed seekers of Wall Street will thin out the number of elitist outsiders coming in to take over all the good old NY neighborhoods – West Village, Little Italy, Chelsea, Hells Kitchen, etc…

    Comment by Tommy Cole — September 19, 2008 @ 10:49 am | Reply

  12. Some people just don’t know when to keep their mouths shut. She could have politely drunk her beer and her and her husband could have left. What did she think a bar should smell like and did she expext wall to wall carpet. It’s obvious she doesn’t get out much. And as far as it being “A Guys Bars”
    thats because calling a spade a spade THATS WHAT IT IS and there is nothing wrong with that. There are no signs says Women Not Allowed. Thats the way it is and thats what makes it such a great place. It has been that way since day one.
    If it aint broke don’t fix it.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 19, 2008 @ 11:12 am | Reply

  13. And another thing,did she expect to see a FRENCH flag?

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 19, 2008 @ 11:19 am | Reply

  14. I don’t know Coach, Jerry sounded like Bill O’Rielly to me. And as far as the article goes that’s about what I would expect from these folks. Now if Farrells had a more decorative container and outside tables she would’ve written glowingly ” …and after your bagel take a stroll across the street for a nice refreshing beer”.

    Comment by Jack Kelly — September 19, 2008 @ 12:16 pm | Reply

  15. Here’s the deal:

    Windsor Terrace is the best example of small town America in a big city. It is middle class, emphasizes family, friends, and devotion to country. Walk down Windsor place between 9th and 10th, see how many flags you see waving. There is a sense of history and community.

    Modern Park Slope unfortunately, incorporates the worst of big city elitism in America. (I hate to say so, cause I grew up there when it was different.) It is the wine and cheese crowd, where conversations sound like you are talking about your resume, where the flag is not to be seen, and devotion to country is considered unfashionable.

    I always said you could conduct this one experiment and it will tell you everything you needed to know about the difference between Park Slope & Windsor Terrace:

    Try exercising your right to free speech by burning an American Flag in front of Farrell’s. You will end up in Methodist quicker than it took Tyson to knock out Michael Spinks.

    Now, go to Park Slope and burn the American Flag in front of say that bar The Gate” on Third street and Fifth avenue. You will be seen as a hero, people will high-five you; shots will be bought in your honor.

    It is two different philosophies, and I am much more at home and comfortable with the Windsor Terrace way of life.

    Comment by Al McNeil — September 19, 2008 @ 12:51 pm | Reply

  16. Bottom Line –

    If anyone ever ordered a spinach and feta pie in our neighborhood, they would have been laughed out…Take it from where it comes. Another yuppie who has no clue.

    Comment by A. Purdy — September 19, 2008 @ 1:16 pm | Reply

  17. Jack,

    LOL! :-) The elitists just fire me up. If I get a talk show, Coach is the first guest and you are my agent.

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 19, 2008 @ 1:29 pm | Reply

  18. OK, I am back, I thought I was over-reacting, but I just reread the article, and it just seems wrong on so many levels. The picture in the middle of the article on the bottom is captioned
    “Windsor Garden”? Then it says View of facades up 16th St.
    I may be totally wrong but I’m a ….dancing fooooll! oh, sorry got lost for a minute, I may be wrong but that looks like 10th ave to me. Then the picture in the upper left, contiguous balconies on Sherman St. I admit, I am not at all familiar with lower Sherman, so it may be there, but it looks like 16th between 10th and 11th or Howard or Fuller Place. Now, moving to the next page, brick brownstones near the subway???? Are they brownstones?? I never in a million years would have described them as such, is two-family brick not a good enough description for Ms. Miller? I passed the DUB on my way to work today, and noticed the paint. It is a dark grey along the top and a darkish blue on the sides. I have nothing against the DUB, but it seems funny that she would describe the Western Union as dreary (since she had no use for it) but since she likes the DUB, you would imagine they had used a bright color scheme to liven up the corner.
    The whole tone of the article seems to be, if I don’t use it, it doesn’t need to be here. Does she know what makes a neighborhood? Our neighborhood has traditionally been middle class, with some on the upper edges of that, and some on the lower. Also, there have always been people on the poorer side. At one time, I had read that Windsor Terrace had the highest concentration of the uniformed services, FDNY, NYPD, and DSNY in the 5 boros. Anyway, the neighborhood is for everybody that lives in it. Of course not every business is going to suit your needs , or wants, but
    hey-maybe it is good for your neighbor. You don’t exactly have to go to Outer Mongolia for restaurants or wine bars.
    I am sure I will be revisiting this topic again, but I will wrap it up for now. If anyone can correct me on the photos, I would appreciate it. Windsor Garden???!!! Yikes!!!!

    Comment by Maureen Rice (Flanagan) — September 19, 2008 @ 2:42 pm | Reply

  19. AP, you got that right! Spinach & feta do not belong on a Brooklyn Pizzza. there’s no way Joe’s would ever make em one!

    Tony, no dount the paper containers were better drinking vessels (unless, you held onto one too long).

    Tommy, it could also go the other way. The elitists may be forced to leave their palaces and live among the commoners.

    Coach greatest line ever heard in Joe’s, What’s wrong with the pizza? Cook em Wee Wee!

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 19, 2008 @ 3:59 pm | Reply

  20. Growing up in OUR neighborhood means that our parents taught me that I can’t write in print the things I am thinking about that dim-witted woman…………

    Comment by Eileen Slavin McElroy — September 19, 2008 @ 4:20 pm | Reply

  21. Just pretend you’re in Farrell’s. That is if you can stand the smell from the beer. LOL!!!!!! ;-)

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 19, 2008 @ 5:56 pm | Reply

  22. This is what that moron is missing out on,this is what this neighborhood means to so many
    She should see how feircely we all are defending ParkSlope.
    This is what I meant when I said A Sense For Neighborhood
    I’ll bet you she doesn’t realize or care for that matter what she set off.
    Here we are all far from home but will never let it out of our hearts.
    When you go back things may have changed but you still feel good goig there.
    And the best part is all of us have that and she doesn’t and never will.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 19, 2008 @ 6:47 pm | Reply

  23. My sister Kathleen called me at work to tell me about this article and then read to me a letter she wrote to the paper in response.
    As she said ” I got out my “poison pen” and gave her a piece of my mind! Farrell’s has always been a gathering place for the great people of our neighborhood – I for one am glad that woman won’t be back!

    Comment by Mary Anne (Brick) Monaco — September 19, 2008 @ 8:42 pm | Reply

  24. Let me be the devils advocate for a minute.If I was never in Farrells before and just walked in I probably would feel the same way But growing up in the neighborhood and spending many good times with friends in Farrells it became more then a bar to me, it became a place to go and never feel alone because there would always be someone there to talk to.It was a place to go where you would feel at home and safe.It was more then a bar it was the neighborhood meeting place.You could always find a fimiliar face in Farrells no matter what time.It was a place where we all had the same bringing up and we all thought the same way.That is why anyone growing up in the neighborhood loved farrells.Up until recently i havent been in the old neighborhood for 25 yrs and when I returned it just didnt feel the same.I rememebered it as it was and sometimes leaving things the way you remember them is better then the way they actually are.If there was no change at all in the neighborhood it still wouldnt feel the same because we all change with age and time.If the old neighborhood was so wonderfull then why have so many of us moved away? Because we all have changed and dont look for the same things that made us happy years ago.Dont get me wrong I think that I grew up in the best neighborhood in the world and would never want to change that.The only way the old neighborhhod would feel the same is if we all still lived there and were young again.Wouldnt that be nice?

    Comment by bill shaw(tumpy) — September 20, 2008 @ 4:01 am | Reply

  25. I hear you Bill,but you wouldn’t go to a strangers house and insult them. I know I wouldn’t.
    “If you can’t say something nice don’t say it”

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 20, 2008 @ 7:17 am | Reply

  26. Bill Shaw,

    I saw your post, your line, “If the old neighborhood was so wonderfull then why have so many of us moved away?”

    There are many reasons.

    One, new job. Many people leave because of a promotion or opportunity elsewhere.

    Two, rent increase. Living in an apartment my entire life I can tell you the price of rent went through the roof (no pun intended).

    Three, the price of a home in the area is unreal! Out here in Michigan, you can buy a beautiful home for half of what you can get in Windsor Terrace.

    But I often think the same thing – why did I ever move out? Meeting a wonderful woman in another part of the country and starting a family is the biggest reason of all.

    Would love to hear other stories as to why people re-located.

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 20, 2008 @ 7:35 am | Reply

  27. Mary Anne,

    Hope you are well and kicking ass!

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 20, 2008 @ 8:06 am | Reply

  28. Jerry,

    I remember that – Jimmy Wheeler!

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 20, 2008 @ 8:07 am | Reply

  29. Same for me,my pops owned two houses but wouldn’t rent to family and we couldn’t afford to buy a house at the time.
    but I always tell my wife if we ever had to relocate it would be right back to Parkslope.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 20, 2008 @ 11:01 am | Reply

  30. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! Farrell’s is an Institution. Jerry Cole makes a great point. You move into our neighborhood and now you want change. Why did move here? The ideal setting between Prospect Park and Greenwood Cemetary? Affordable Housing? (Not anymore). Quick and easy public transportation? Like everything else, if you dont like it, dont go; turn it off… or just move to Williamsburg where you will fit in. This is a neighborhood of families. My mother was raised on 9th & 17th, My father from 18th & 5ave. I have cousins and relatives in this neighborhood I’m meeting for the first time and I am 48 years old. I’ll bet almost every family in Winsdor Terrace has lineage going back at least one or more generations. Farrell’s along with most of the other commercial businesses are family owned and operated. Winsdor Terrace does not need Yuppie, Bohemian, or whatever other tag these losers go by. GO BACK TO THE LOWEREAST SIDE OR WILLIAMSBURG!!!! LEAVE OUR LITTLE PATCH OF NEW YORK ALONE!!!

    By the way I believe Farrell’s was used in many other movies whether inside or outside shots. And I do wish they went back to the cardboard containers, taste better. I am suprised Ms. Miller is bitching that styrofoam is harmful to the enviroment.

    Comment by Bill LaVasseur — September 20, 2008 @ 12:30 pm | Reply

  31. Billy,

    Good stuff.

    Tony F,

    You’re all over it – good show!

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 20, 2008 @ 7:26 pm | Reply

  32. She missed the whole point of a neighborhood bar like Farrell’s. It not only objects and mothers milk[beer] it is a place of essentially clean wholesome America. Sports, neighborhood leagues,civil service,catholicism and above all one of those unique places where we Brooklynites learn the definition of “friendship”that lasts a life time. I am in Texas now and people are always questioning me about my hometown and all the friends I have.Never do I hear, as I travel around the country, about peoples hometowns so descriptively as I am about my hometown .Farrell’s was a place I made lifelong friends and even 30 years later I can walk in and find a friend and catch up or get in an argument over a sports team or remember a true hero like Johnny Devaney or Jimmy Riches son or Vinny Brunton.It’s funny these writers dislike most of what is great about America like wholesome meeting places where Americans enjoy themselves . It has to be them telling us we are misguided and needto be told how to live. Sounds strikingly familiar to some who are running for office right now. Long live Farrells and all the great people who have passed through its doors and made a neighborhood a truly friendly place to live. John Bies

    Comment by John B — September 20, 2008 @ 8:58 pm | Reply

  33. You see I don’t think I know John but I like him and you know why? Because here is a guy who gets it,here is a guy who came in in the end of this and picked up the ball and ran with it. This is excactly what we are talking about. No one can take that away from us. We lived there and we will never lose that.
    The more I read these blogs the more I feel sorry for Ms. Miller. But we can never let our gaurd down with people like this. My Grand father used to say(in Italian) what do you get when you put a bow tie on a snake? A snake with a bow tie
    If I’m ever in Texas I’m looking you up John and buying you a beer.

    Comment by TONYF16ST — September 21, 2008 @ 8:20 am | Reply

  34. We couldn’t afford a home in Windsor. Had no choice but to move we we could afford to buy. If we had the money for a house there, we would have never left.

    Comment by Karen (Artz) Shanley — September 21, 2008 @ 6:38 pm | Reply

  35. Brooklin is right! If these people could have afforded a 2-3 million dollar home they would have never graced us with their presence in Windsor Terrace but they would have rather purchased a home in Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, and/or Brooklyn Heights. The best is when they walk around around election time representing the “Working Families Party”. I point blank tell them that it was they who pushed out the “Real” Working Families in the neighborhood and to take their hypocritical speech somewhere else!

    Comment by Elroy — September 22, 2008 @ 10:44 am | Reply

  36. There is no other neighborhood like ours and I don’t think if you grew up anywhere else would you understand that even when you move away, whether it be to a different neighborhood, a different county, or a different state that this is the place we all call home. I moved away 12 years ago and when people ask me where I’m from, I don’t say upstate NY, I say Brooklyn. Then of course, the next question is, “have you ever been to Farrell’s?” I work in a physical therapy office in Windham NY and people who come in here can tell I’m from Brooklyn, an accent that I am very proud of! They’ve even heard of Farrell’s. It’s not just and institution, it’s a place where we all met and shared drinks and good times, and sometimes sad times but none the less it became and will always be a part of all of our lives. The first time I walked thru the doors of Farrells I was 5 years old with my Grandfather (AKA Poppy)
    and all the old men would buy me Shirley Temples and give me money. So as you can see, it’s been a part of my life for a long time. I even met my husband there. This Lynne Miller probably never grew up in a real neighborhood, and guaranteed if you asked her what her neighbors names were, she wouldn’t know. She should get a job at the Village Voice and leave our old neighborhood alone- go have a latte instead of a beer!

    Comment by Loretta Morgan — September 22, 2008 @ 1:03 pm | Reply

  37. I always love it when someone spends their precious time to write about the little people.

    Comment by Mike L — September 22, 2008 @ 6:39 pm | Reply

  38. I SENT THIS LETTER TO THE EDITOR OF THE DAILY NEWS. WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THEY RUN IT.

    To: voicers@edit.nydailynews.com
    Sent: 9/20/2008 6:05:36 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
    Subj: Lynne Miller Article

    To The Editor:

    You have no idea how happy everyone in Farrell’s Bar & Grill is to hear that they are not Ms. Miller’s “cup of tea” and that she will not be coming back there. Too bad the entire neighborhood is “not the cup of tea” of the elitist yuppie scum that has inhabited it and are in the process of destroying it as they did with Park Slope. The only good news to come out of this article is the fact that a new bar is planning to open right across the street from Farrells. This will at least stop the “real neighborhood people” from having to deal with the occasional yuppie a_ _ _ _ _ _ that wanders into the last stronghold of the world as we once knew it.
    “Up and Coming Neighborhood” Ms. Miller? You’re a little late on that one.

    Denise McNeely Decker

    Comment by Denise McNeely Decker — September 23, 2008 @ 3:22 am | Reply

  39. D-

    Let us know if they print it.

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 23, 2008 @ 7:17 am | Reply

  40. Perhaps when they open the “New Bar” across the street they’ll stop coming in and using the one in Farrells. Every Saturday while I’m waiting for my pound of baloney to be sliced up in United they come strolling in to use the bathroom.

    Comment by Jack Kelly — September 23, 2008 @ 1:25 pm | Reply

  41. Is that Jack Kelly from 7th Avenue.? This is John Bies

    Comment by John B — September 23, 2008 @ 5:17 pm | Reply

  42. Denise, your letter is not the only one – my sister Kathleen also wrote to the paper in response. She said she hoped Ms Miller enjoyed her $10. glass of wine at the new bar because she would be enjoying a beer at Farrells with a better class of people.

    Comment by Mary Anne (Brick) Monaco — September 23, 2008 @ 9:15 pm | Reply

  43. You know, after all these colorful put-downs, I almost feel sorry for the Daily News reporter. Windsor Terrace (and, undoubtedly, Farrell’s) obviously can be the friendliest place in the world–if you’re “from here.” If you’re not, it can be kinda tough; the flip side of a powerful bond of nostalgia is that it shuts out the new as well as holds in the old. Take it from an “outsider” 2 subway stops away (the “wrong direction”–Flatbush) who enrolled her kid in Holy Name in First Grade. Now, in Eighth Grade, I’ve realized that, at the deepest level, I’ll always be “an outsider” to some folks, I suspect mostly ’cause I’m not from WT born-and-bred. I wish I’d grown up in WT, especially in one of those great Irish clans, but I didn’t. This club of your shared past was apparently so intense that outsiders and change represent a genuine threat to something precious, beyond the standard script of gentrification. I’ve never set foot in Farrells, which sort of saddens me, because if you’re from the old nabe, it’s clearly a great old place to be, and Hoolie must be a great soul from his generosity to Holy Name School alone. But my husband and I, dorky-looking writers who don’t drink much, would look like aliens in Farrell’s, and I can’t imagine walking in alone. So Farrell’s has become a sort of poignant symbol of a close-knit place whose fabric I’ll never really penetrate. (And dammit, we don’t even have yuppie-scale bucks for consolation!–Most of the WT “old-timers” are sitting on enough real-estate wealth to buy and sell us many times over.) When I go to the meat-pie place for an occasional treat, I feel the comfort of knowing that they’re “newbies” too, and I won’t look like a jerk for asking what’s in the funny Australian pie. In Farrell’s, I’m afraid I’d look like a jerk for asking for anything but a Bud (and even then I’d look like a jerk). And after reading these comments, I ponder whether there is such a thing as “reverse elitism.” I know some yups who are decent caring people, even if they do buy $5 coffee, and if you invited one to have a container at Farrells, the yup would probably die of joy and blog about it gratefully for days. Funny world!

    Comment by Brenda from Flatbush — September 23, 2008 @ 10:07 pm | Reply

  44. Brenda,

    WOW! You “almost feel sorry for the Daily News reporter”? That’s very heart-warming of you.

    Did you read the piece?

    She put a neighborhood landmark down. She insulted an establishment where life-long, neighborhood friends meet after a hard day’s work and engage in conversation about everything from sports to the challenges of raising their children in a cruel world. A world where “writers” in the media thrive on negativity. Who love to stir up drama! Who love controversy.

    What else would you expect from people who are passionate and proud of where they come from? Should we pat Ms. Miller on the back and thank her for writing such an outstanding article?

    Wonder why she failed to do her homework like all good reporters normally do? How about writing about Hoolie? Or interviewing folks who have lived in the neighborhood for over 50 years?

    I have an idea Brenda from Flatbush – instead of judging from afar, why not step into Farrell’s the next time you are on the avenue and cozy up to someone at the bar who is ‘from here’ and see how it goes? Stand or sit next to a retired firefighter, or maybe even a police officer. Or maybe you can talk shop with a postal worker who is off-duty? Better yet, you might find it interesting and educational to start a conversation with a war hero who served our country?

    Some advice for you – say hi, put a twenty on the bar, order a glass of beer, ask how the Mets did last night and see what happens?

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 23, 2008 @ 11:56 pm | Reply

  45. He’s right Brenda. no one said outsiders not welcomed only outsiders who look down their noses aren’t welcome.
    If you and your husband walked in and acted like regular folks you would be accepted no problem.
    Thats what Farrell’s is all about, just regular blue collar workers kicking back and having a few cold ones. And you may just be suprised at how fast you’d fit in.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 24, 2008 @ 5:47 am | Reply

  46. Hello John, Yes it’s me. But now I’m Jack Kelly of Widsor Terrace (despite the efforts to keep us 7th avenue guys below 8th Avenue a few of us got here anyway ;-) It’s been a long time between hello’s so how are you doing? So ya in Texas now. I can picture you telling em all about the old neighborhood and within days the backyard fences starting getting higher. I’m only kidding we could’nt have a better Ambassador to the Lone Star State than you. I hope all is well with you and yours and when you come up let me know so we can get together and discuss the virtues of Texas Long Horn Steer beef compared to regular beef, take care.

    Comment by Jack Kelly — September 24, 2008 @ 7:51 am | Reply

  47. Brenda, Brenda, Brenda, you feel sorry for Ms. Miller? If she had written the same type of unflattering piece about a place like Soho or Brooklyn Heights she’d have been eviscerated by the denizens of those neighborhoods. Well, why should she not expect the same treatment here? She struck at the very heart of a place that so many of us feel near and dear to. Reverse Elitism, c’mon now. No one is going to buy into that. Perhaps, if Ms. Miller had done the slightest bit of research, she might have come to a different conclusion. Sadly, my guess is that she’d already made up her mind before she wrote the piece. Her tunnel vision set tone for this article. Let me ask you this, if you don’t have a positive attitude going into a new experience how is it possible to come out of it with anything positive to say? She is just another negative Nellie, “I don’t like it so it must be wrong.” She is going to tell these poor unfortunate souls in this neighborhood what they need? Now that’s funny. Up and coming neighborhood??? Only if you just landed on this planet.

    This is a good, solid neighborhood made up of mostly working class families. We have always been fiercely loyal to our friends and that is an admirable quality. Take Coach’s advice, stop in sidle up to the bar and strike up a conversation with someone. Start with a bartender and before long you’ll be talking to others in the place. You’ll be surprise just how quickly you’ll find yourself inside the circle. Farrell’s is a real New York melting pot. Civil servants, Wall Street types and other professionals all drop by to have a beer and chat. If some feel like outsiders then perhaps it is because they haven’t made a concerted effort to try to be part of the group and not that the group won’t let them in. Farrell’s isn’t like a trendy NYC club where you need to pass muster to gain entrance. No one stops you at the door to question whether or not you belong. It is a pretty warm place as long as you walk in without a chip on your shoulder and it does not appear that Ms. Miller approached it that way.

    I have old college friends that have been to Farrell’s just once and a quarter century later they all still talk glowingly about their experience there. There are also family friends from Buffalo who feel their trips to New York aren’t complete without a visit to Farrell’s. I’m not saying that everyone who goes to Farrell’s will love the place. It would be ludicrous to expect that, but again if you are open to the experience perhaps you’ll come away with a different perspective.

    FYI, my family moved to New Jersey 13 years ago. We moved into a neighborhood where just about everyone knew everyone else. No question that this can be a tough thing. However, we did not try to isolate ourselves or look down our noses on those around us or try to convince people that we knew how everything should be done. Instead, we looked at the things that went on around us and tried to become a part of them. Our neighbors are outstanding people and in many ways they remind me of the old neighborhood. People watch out for each other and help each other especially in a pinch. Are there cliques? Absolutely, but you’ll find that everywhere you go. Monmouth County is a nice place. It has good schools, great parks and is close to the beaches. There is wonderful history, beautiful scenic horse country and lots more. By the way, there are many ex-WT residents now living in the area. So, we have a wonderful mix of old friends and new friends and when they are together no one is shut out and no one feels like an outsider.

    Lastly, many of us would love to see Farrell’s open a “Farrell’s South” down here. It would no doubt have a different feel to it simply because the lay of the land is different. After all, you have to drive everywhere in Jersey. However, I’d be willing to bet that all of the Farrell’s aficionados would come out in droves knowing that it would provide another meeting place for them to catch up with friends both old and new.

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 24, 2008 @ 9:34 am | Reply

  48. “Reverse elitism”? I have lived in this neighborhood for over 45 years. I have seen the property values go from when my father purchased his home for $24,000.00 in 1964 to now where the same home is worth roughly $1.2 million. I have seen a street where families have moved in and perhaps one kid on the block from those very same families attend the local school (PS 154) which is just down the street. Whatever happened to assimilation into a neighborhood? I or most long time residents have never taken offense to the new families or “yups” as you put it. The problem is that when many of these families move in these very same families try to change our traditional ways. I don’t call this reverse elitism but rather elitism for the new comes in with little or no regard for the tradition or establishment. Brenda, you are right in saying that there are many nice newcomers to WT. I agree. I especially like the ones who have been here a while or had a “cup of coffee” in the area before trying to impose their ways. In most cultures around the world there is a great respect for traditional ways and especially for the elders who maintained those traditions. It’s true that Farrell’s is not everyone’s cup of tea but that does not mean that one has to insult or bash it. It’s just different from what some people prefer so leave it at that.

    Comment by Brooklin — September 24, 2008 @ 9:37 am | Reply

  49. Heres the bottom line. How would Brenda and Ms. Miller feel if they invited us to their neighborhood and their favorite watering hole, and then we trashed it in print the next day?
    Sometimes the best things said are unsaid. capeesh?

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 24, 2008 @ 10:11 am | Reply

  50. Coach, Brooklin, Jerry, Tony, those are thoughtful and challenging answers to chew on. This is an amazing discussion, goes deep into really important issues about who we are, who we see ourselves as, and what we value (or treasure)…and also what we fear. Ultimately, I think we all fear rejection, both newcomers and old-timers in any human situation; I’ve long insisted that life is one big high school cafeteria, and we’re all sweating out finding our table, the one we’re safe and accepted at.
    I actually went back to Miller’s article for a closer read; the worst thing she says is that Farrell’s “smells like beer” (don’t most bars?) and that it’s not her cup of tea, pretty tame negatives. Her description of the Bud sign and flag are straight reporting, not snarky; she introduces the place correctly as a “neighborhood institution” and an “authentic guys’ bar.” And in re-reading you guys’ (and gals’) comments, what strikes me is the anger and pain in what she DIDN’T see (and didn’t take tiime to research): the history, bonding, friendship, stories, in what looks like a plain old bar to somebody new and clueless. She doesn’t, and at this point in her “education,” can’t see its meaning and value. From such mismatched worldviews are born so many lost opportunities and so much bitterness…all the human cost involved as communities inevitably evolve and reshape themselves.
    Frankly, the one sentence in the article that pissed me off (even as a WT “commuter”) was that WT is an “up and coming neighborhood.” Up and coming to what: Starbucks? Gap? “People like us,” (that is, Miller), drifting up from Park Slope and longing for gelato? Pretty insufferable…although, you know, I’d almost rather that bald-faced snobbery than the sneaky snobbery of the New York Times, where Biff and Muffy come to the new nabe and proclaim themselves to just LOVE the colorful local dives and tasty treats. (We get this crap every time the times covers my black Flatbush nabe: Why, it’s “diverse”! It’s “vibrant”! Yum, there is jerk chicken! Oh, and you’ll want to buy a house alarm and send your kids to private school in an armored Hummer…)
    Bottom line: Now you’ve thrown down the challenge, I’ll do exactly what you said and go into Farrell’s sometime…I’ll be the weird old bag making goo-goo eyes at the firefighters and nursing a Bud. Jeez, I hate Bud (is there Guinness on tap?) Be nice to me anyway, okay?

    Comment by Brenda from Flatbush — September 24, 2008 @ 11:09 am | Reply

  51. Brenda from Flatbush,

    Did you know they filmed the Lords of Flatbush in a soda shop on 8th avenue and I wanna say 10th or 11th street? (is that right folks, with old age comes memory loss).

    One quick comment, you said, “Frankly, the one sentence in the article that pissed me off (even as a WT “commuter”) was that WT is an “up and coming neighborhood.”

    I believe that was a quote from a proprietor of a new business that sells Gelato!

    Up and coming neighborhood?

    Windsor Terrace is one of the best of all-time and that will never change.

    Did anyone mention they failed terribly on the identification of the images in their story?

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 24, 2008 @ 11:39 am | Reply

  52. Guiness on tap? Thats rich. Let us know when your going. I’ll buy the first round. Maybe the rest of the Bloggers will show up and show you some good old hospitality.
    Who knows you just may have a good time.
    And no Goo- Goo Eyes Farrell’s is a respectable joint.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 24, 2008 @ 11:51 am | Reply

  53. Atta – boy Tony! What a guy you are…

    You are making a strong push for the end of the year ‘Top 10 Container Diaries contributers.

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 24, 2008 @ 12:05 pm | Reply

  54. Some one has to step up here. I loved growing up there and thats the way it is.
    Maybe buying a drink and being nice will keep us out of the papers. A very small price to pay.
    My father being an immigrant always said there is nothing wrong with liking where you are as long as you never forget where you came from.
    I think everyone can agree with that.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 24, 2008 @ 12:18 pm | Reply

  55. Brenda,

    First off, I love the analogy of life & a high school cafeteria. That is, as they would say in the Guiness commercials “Brilliant”. It is also dead on accurate.

    One difficult thing about the written word that makes it hard is for people is that often the reader adds their perceived tone. Lots of problems start over a perceived slight. While it may not have been Ms. Miller’s intenttion to rile the locals and those who see Farrell’s as much more than a bar that is what she did. If nothing else she probably at the very least owes it to herself, her readers and the neighborhood to stop on by again. This time maybe she should just come on in and try and engage the folks inside in conversation. Observing is one way to get a sense of what is going on, but participating is really the best way to fully comprehend what is happening.

    Life is a participant sport.

    Evolving is something all neighborhoods need to do to in order to grow and thrive. No one is against positive change especially when it is for the greater good. However, you can’t just swoop in and think that only you know what is for the greater good. By the way, the lot just down the street from Farrell’s that is a ballfield now used to be a vacant lot. Through the dedication of some very special people it was coverted into a great space for the youngsters to learn how to play baseball.

    Let us know when you are dropping in. Perhaps some of the local bloggers can stop by to say hello.

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 24, 2008 @ 1:05 pm | Reply

  56. Most “old-time” WT residents are sitting on a gold mine? If these old timers were to sell their homes where would they live? Usually when one sells their home they look to make somewhat of a profit. The money that they would make would only pay for another home in a neighborhood that is compatible to WT for about the same price. So what’s the point?
    The point is that if you are not going to make a profit from a sale and the for next home that you buy will cost just as much then why leave WT in the first place? I believe that people do not want to leave WT due to the fact that they love the area and secondly for a sound business reason for they won’t make a profit for the only other neighborhoods that they would feel comfortbale moving into ( Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Bay Ridge, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Williamsburg, and Greenpoint cost just as much if not more in some cases than WT. That’s what makes WT so special. People coming in and jacking up the prices destroy the small town/middle class vibe of WT.

    Comment by Brooklin — September 24, 2008 @ 2:08 pm | Reply

  57. Hello Brenda, They do have Guinness Draft in the can. I always find that does the trick when you’re in the mood for a guinness and there’s none on tap. Well to be honest they can have Guinness in a cardboard carton and I would’nt mind.

    Comment by Jack Kelly — September 24, 2008 @ 2:12 pm | Reply

  58. Although I would rather have a Guinness on draft, Guinness in a can tastes pretty darn good too! With that little ball in the can! Great stuff! Rhythmn and Booze on Prospect and 10th Ave has a nice Guinness on draft!

    Comment by Brooklin — September 25, 2008 @ 8:07 am | Reply

  59. It seems alls quiet on the Western Front.
    Thank God

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 25, 2008 @ 9:22 am | Reply

  60. TonyF

    Sometimes quiet is good-

    I would love to know if Ms. Miller has heard about the blog and the comments on this board? Think if she did read what we had to say, she would come here and defend her article?

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 25, 2008 @ 10:32 am | Reply

  61. Steve,
    Let me know if you get the pullout I sent you.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 25, 2008 @ 11:54 am | Reply

  62. I love the Guinness in the can with the little ball, so we’re good to go. And I know all about Our Lady’s Field ’cause my daughter’s a HNS kid…HNS was the only RC school in Brooklyn we found that still seemed to have the best of the old days with the “diversity” of today’s Brooklyn. The folks we’ve met in this community have a quality I thought was almost extinct–in addition to intense loyalty and decency, a sort of personal dignity and self-reliance. What saved the school was a core of generous folks who NEVER LEFT the nabe, who remained stakeholders in their families’ community. (You see some of the Bklyn parochial school reunions in the Tablet, and they’re being held in Florida.) And thank you Brooklin for perfectly explaining the whole phenom that we call “our ha-ha-ha million-dollar house.” Yeah, we could sell–and go where? (Or as we like to say, Our retirement plan is to sell the house and buy a trailer in Missouri.) Our house is a home, not a stock or bond, and we’re here for the duration; if we made it through the crack 80s, we’re not leaving now!…see you around…

    Comment by Brenda from Flatbush — September 25, 2008 @ 10:30 pm | Reply

  63. Brenda,

    Trailer in Missouri??? Say it ain’t so. LOL!!!

    During the mid-seventies we lived in Missouri for about 2 1/2 years. Stay away, all they have are FLOODS, TORNADOS, BLISTERING HEAT & BLIZZARDS! ;-)

    We lived in the town of Florissant which is located about 20 mins outside of St. Louis. It was a very nice place to live and it had a lot to offer but we all missed Brooklyn. We were lucky enough to have met another family who had moved there from New York. They lived down the street from us. The two families became very close. Years later in college I had a friend from Long Island and he told me about someone he went to high school with, he said she had lived in Missouri for a few years before moving back to Long Island with her family. I said was her last name Cotter? He damn near died. Low and behold, his former classmate was my old neighbor from Florissant. Small world ain’t it.

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 26, 2008 @ 8:36 am | Reply

  64. I was born and bred in WT, and I love this neighborhood with all my heart and soul, but I think I have a unique perspective.

    I’m an Irish-American, I went to IHM, and then Bishop Ford. And during those years I felt a huge mix of feelings, because I grew up gay and while I belong here and these are my roots, I was born here, I grew up here. I spend my days in the park and I know every square inch of this area. I was never made to feel welcome by anyone because I wasn’t afraid to come out.

    So yes, Farrel’s is an institution, and in a way I’m proud of it, because it’s an example of middle class people trying to make a living and hold on to their roots. Have I ever gone in? I tried…once. Couldn’t get in the door. I was stared down until I left.

    Even now, I get jeered from Farrel’s occasionally, shouts of “Go back to Village, yuppie faggot!” are hurled at me and my boyfriend, who is a Jamaica, Queens native. We both grew up poor, and we’re still poor. Only just affording to stay in the neighborhood. I wonder if their attitudes would change if they knew I was a native, or if they knew I wasn’t responsible for gentrifying the area.

    I doubt it.

    Comment by Josh — September 26, 2008 @ 10:45 am | Reply

  65. I was born and bred in WT, and I love this neighborhood with all my heart and soul, but I think I have a unique perspective.

    I’m an Irish-American, I went to IHM, and then Bishop Ford. And during those years I felt a huge mix of feelings, because I grew up gay and while I belong here and these are my roots, I was born here, I grew up here. I spend my days in the park and I know every square inch of this area. I was never made to feel welcome by anyone because I wasn’t afraid to come out.

    So yes, Farrell’s is an institution, and in a way I’m proud of it, because it’s an example of middle class people trying to make a living and hold on to their roots. Have I ever gone in? I tried…once. Couldn’t get in the door. I was stared down until I left.

    Even now, I get jeered from Farrel’s occasionally, shouts of “Go back to Village, yuppie faggot!” are hurled at me and my boyfriend, who is a Jamaica, Queens native. We both grew up poor, and we’re still poor. Only just affording to stay in the neighborhood. I wonder if their attitudes would change if they knew I was a native, or if they knew I wasn’t responsible for gentrifying the area.

    I doubt it.

    Comment by Giosue — September 26, 2008 @ 3:02 pm | Reply

  66. Reading about the neighborhood newbies and their wine bar, sushi bar, and down under pies made me think of some of my Dad’s favorite dishes when he moved to the Terrace in 1935.

    Back then, besides pretzels, many of the bars served pigs’ knuckles with the free lunch. Dad liked those.

    From the deli next to Farrell’s, he would get his favorite cheeses: limburger and liederkranz.

    Organ meats were big back then. Dad loved a cow tongue sandwich. Tongue was a big seller at the deli.

    Here’s a recipe:

    Scrub the tongue very well and put in a huge pot with cold water to just cover.

    Add an onion, sliced or not, a carrot, grated, 8 allspice berries, 1 tsp. black peppercorns, 5 cloves, a bay leaf, 3-4 cloves of garlic, and some salt.

    Simmer for about 3 hours, keeping the tongue just barely covered.

    Remove from stock and let cool, just a bit! The skin of the tongue on the taste bud side will have pulled away a bit from the meat. Slit this with a sharp knife, don’t hit the meat. Scissors work well. Then just peel off both sides. Cut the root end off and freeze for a soup. It has a lot of gnarly things in it, but makes a good little soup when picked apart.

    Slice the tongue and put into an oven dish with a ladle-full of the stock.

    Cover and keep warm in the oven. Strain the stock, pressing hard on the solids. Bring to a boil and reduce to 2-3 cups. Taste for seasoning and thicken with a cornstarch paste. Pour the liquid in the baking dish into the gravy and whisk it in. Pour over the meat.

    Comment by M. Corrigan — September 26, 2008 @ 3:07 pm | Reply

  67. If someone described my favorite bar as ‘smelling like beer, having hardwood floors, ratty furniture, trashed but otherwise clean bathrooms, neon beer signs in the window, and a late 20s to late 30s, non-hipster crowd’ I’d say “yeah, that’s about right.” Because not one word of that description of my preferred watering hole of the last 6 years is a lie. Is it a complete description of the place? Of course not. But when was the last time you asked someone what a bar was like and expected a detailed analysis of its history coupled with the owner/main bartender’s life story? People have gotten WAY too sensitive on this subject. It’s as if certain people were waiting for whomever they perceive as ‘outsiders’ or ‘yuppies’—a term so out of date it’s ridiculous—to say anything even remotely construed as offensive so they can take out their anger on them. Whatever. It’s not her thing. So what? Did she lie or make stuff up about the place? If she did, that’s another thing altogether. But, please.

    One would think by the reaction here that she called Farrell’s and its patrons all kinds of insulting terms. She didn’t: she gave a very superficial, yet accurate description of the place in a short paragraph that was part of a piece about the neighborhood. It’s not like it’s Farrell’s official entry in The History of Brooklyn Bars or something. You love it, she doesn’t. Big whoop.

    Listen, at the end of the day, some people will read Miller’s description of the bar and say “Hey, that sounds like my kinda joint. I’ll check it out,” while others might conclude “I don’t think I’d fit in there,” and not pay Farrell’s a visit. Big deal. Jeez…this victim routine is really sad.

    Al McNeil:

    “Try exercising your right to free speech by burning an American Flag in front of Farrell’s. You will end up in Methodist quicker than it took Tyson to knock out Michael Spinks.”

    “Now, go to Park Slope and burn the American Flag in front of say that bar The Gate” on Third street and Fifth avenue. You will be seen as a hero, people will high-five you; shots will be bought in your honor.”

    Forget Miller, this is someone you all should really be pissed at: his stereotyping implies that Farrell’s patrons are violent, intolerant, law-breaking knuckleheads, while those at The Gate are US-hating, anti-American, pinko-commie liberals. McNeil, you do a disservice to everyone. I’m sure good, decent people drink in both joints, but you’re too busy with your us-vs.-them rhetoric to care.

    Comment by Saul — September 26, 2008 @ 6:22 pm | Reply

  68. Thank you both(Giosue and Saul) for the collorful bebuttals great stuff really. Now say goodnight Gracie.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 27, 2008 @ 3:40 am | Reply

  69. I wish had known about this blog before the Daily News story. I see a lot of lemonade coming from that lemon.

    People like myself – short-time Windsor Terrace residents – have a place to rediscover what a wonderful neighborhood we hope it still is (as opposed to the sad “was” I see liberally sprinkled throughout this blog).

    I know this blog is dedicated to memories of Windsor Terrace residents from the 60s, 70s and “even 80s,” so I hope you may forgive my interloping indiscretion.

    I lived there for one very quick year, after graduate school, from 1992-93, on the top floor of a Prospect Park Southwest limestone, half a block from F stop.

    For a young journalist fairly new to New York, the neighborhood was a dream. It was everything I thought New York – and when I say New York, I really mean Brooklyn – was about.

    There is some there, there, in the many fictional books and films mentioning Brooklyn’s greatest neighborhoods.

    But reading about these neighborhoods or seeing them on the screen is a pale substitute for actually living in one of them. The Windsor Terrace I lived in will always be one of the all-time great neighborhoods I’ve ever known (besides, of course, the neighborhood I grew up in – far away from the U.S. East Coast).

    Windsor Terrace chose me when I couldn’t find an affordable place to live in the early gentrification stages of Park Slope in the early 1990s. I ended up in in your neighborhood by chance when I saw an ad for a floor for rent stapled to a telephone pole a few blocks away.

    I remember Farrell’s well. It was and is the ultimate neighborhood bar that I’d never seen growing up, the place to be – especially from Friday night to Sunday afternoon!

    I can’t match you all for your warm memories of decades past in the neighborhood but I do share in the great fondness I have for this unique and quintessentially American — Brooklyn-American, neighborhood.

    Comment by Tom Vogel — September 27, 2008 @ 8:18 am | Reply

  70. I wish had known about this blog before the Daily News story. I see a lot of lemonade coming from that lemon.

    People like myself – short-time Windsor Terrace residents – have a place to rediscover what a wonderful neighborhood we hope it still is (as opposed to the sad “was” I see liberally sprinkled throughout this blog).

    I know this blog is dedicated to memories of Windsor Terrace residents from the 60s, 70s and “even 80s,” so I hope you may forgive my interloping indiscretion.

    I lived there for one very quick year, after graduate school, from 1992-93, on the top floor of a Prospect Park Southwest limestone, half a block from F stop.

    For a young journalist fairly new to New York, the neighborhood was a dream. It was everything I thought New York – and when I say New York, I really mean Brooklyn – was about.

    There is some there, there, in the many fictional books and films mentioning Brooklyn’s greatest neighborhoods.

    But reading about these neighborhoods or seeing them on the screen is a pale substitute for actually living in one of them. The Windsor Terrace I lived in will always be one of the all-time great neighborhoods I’ve ever known (besides, of course, the neighborhood I grew up in – far away from the U.S. East Coast).

    Windsor Terrace chose me when I couldn’t find an affordable place to live in the early gentrification stages of Park Slope in the early 1990s. I ended up in in your neighborhood by chance when I saw an ad for a floor for rent stapled to a telephone pole a few blocks away.

    I remember Farrell’s well. It was and is the ultimate neighborhood bar that I’d never seen growing up, the place to be – especially from Friday night to Sunday afternoon!

    I can’t match you all for your warm memories of decades past in the neighborhood but I do share in the great fondness I have for this unique and quintessentially American — Brooklyn-American, neighborhood.

    Comment by Tom — September 27, 2008 @ 8:30 am | Reply

  71. Tom,

    Welcome to the blog – please don’t be a stranger. I started the blog to share my memories of growing up in the neighborhood but material is always accepted from others POV.

    Giosue,

    A warm-welcome to you too…

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 27, 2008 @ 10:27 am | Reply

  72. Just curious folks,
    I lived in Park Slope many years ago and happened on this blog and had a couple of questions. What are the current official boundaries of PS and WT? City records show PPW as the divider. i.e., all to the west of PPW is Park Slope and to the east is WT from the circle south to about Prospect Ave. or so. Does that sound right? Also a friend of mine lives not too far from Farrell’s and tells me that that particular area is resembling gentrified Park Slope more and more every day. Isn’t the new Pub mentioned in the article an additional step in the morphing of PS and WT?
    Hank

    Comment by Hank — September 27, 2008 @ 12:24 pm | Reply

  73. In case anyone is interested in how a different blog is discussing this discussion:

    http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/0

    9/virtually_dukin.php#comments

    next week we can have a third blog discussing both discussions…

    –Oren from 16th street

    Comment by Oren — September 27, 2008 @ 12:44 pm | Reply

  74. Yknow what? I’m one of those Yuppie Manhattanites who moved here, and I have no more money than you. Here’s the deal you guys don’t want to hear:

    WT is full of blue collar Catholics and the folks who are moving in are a more diverse crowd: Jews and Asians and what-have-yous from the Midwest and West, and who really don’t care about your working class blue collar, smelly beer drinking, America first mentality. And you will yield. You will yield to people with more money than you. You will yield to Starbucks. Farells will yield to a place that’s inviting to other people apart from your own. And the Dub Shop and others like it will continue to multiply like bunny rabbits. You are no different than the black folks in Fort Greene we pushed out. No different than the WASPs in Brooklyn Heights. And you will yield too: you will move to Bay Ridge or wherever the latest home to white flight is, and you will sell your lovely homes to us for 200 or 300% of what you paid. And then, you will vote for the latest Republican. C’est la friggin guerre. Here we come baby.

    Comment by strongorbit — September 27, 2008 @ 9:21 pm | Reply

  75. Hank, I’ve given up trying to figure out the border lines because the real estate people keep on changing them or coming up with new names. It all depends on what’s hot and what’s not….And people thought big oil ran the country ;-)

    Comment by Jack Kelly — September 28, 2008 @ 10:47 am | Reply

  76. i grew up in canarsie and played ball at canarsie high with brian kasper, who lived right upstairs from farrells. on the weekends brian would come and hang out in canarsie (late 80’s early 90’s) with the kids he went to school with. we would sometimes go to WT and pick up brian and he would say how all of these rich yuppies were going to start moving to this neighborhood. now 18 years latter it would likely be saffer for kids like brian and myself to hang out in sader city iraq than in CRIPnarsie. im sure the people of WT would like for their neighborhood to always have the same feel as when they were growing up there. yet the farrells crowd will never have to worry about these yuppie scum or filthy hippsters mugging old women, shooting it out in the middle of 8th. ave or raping women in the saftey of their own homes. it must be nice to still be able to have the option to be able to go back to your old hood. if you choose, with your children, show them where you grew up and maybe even get out of the car and walk around with out having to worry about some filthy hippster thinking you look like an easy mark.

    Comment by anthony caratelli — September 28, 2008 @ 11:03 am | Reply

    • I remember a Anthony Caratelli and a brian kasper when i went to Canarsie High School. I still go back every once in a while since my friend owns Original Pizza on Avenue L.

      Comment by Michael I. — September 20, 2009 @ 4:19 pm | Reply

    • I used to know an anthony caratelli from Canarsie when I went there. Though I heard he bit an ear and haven’t heard from him since. Canarsie isn’t hipsters ….it’s much much worse

      Mike I
      Brooklyn, ny

      Comment by Mike ithaki — October 14, 2013 @ 11:18 pm | Reply

      • Good to see Canarsie on the cool check-in…

        Comment by hoopscoach — October 15, 2013 @ 6:07 am

  77. strongorbit-

    Nice try, but the Terrace has survived far more than the expansion of the free money mortgage market we’ve experienced. Now that it’s running it’s down cycle, I doubt very much we’ll see an army of cash laden whores looking to make that killer real estate “steal” in the years to come. And if you do a bit of research, Starbucks has yielded to the market. Yeah, they are receding and shrinking the base of shops that seemed to spread like a virus the past decade. I fear the opportunity has passed for many boutique new business forays as the lending base has or will disappear for quite some time with the current failures. Nobody wants to borrow at double digit rates.

    So- what else do you have? A strong orbit around yourself? Maybe you could form a more current perspective that we could actually consider.

    Comment by GW — September 28, 2008 @ 11:09 am | Reply

  78. GW,

    Good stuff – excellent point on Starbucks.

    Comment by hoopscoach — September 28, 2008 @ 1:26 pm | Reply

  79. Steve-
    My pleasure. Feel free to post it on today’s blog. Orbit Boy is a bit shallow on scenario and long on imagination. Keep up the good work….

    Comment by GW — September 28, 2008 @ 1:42 pm | Reply

  80. Hey Strongorbit I have 1 question for you were you born an asshole or does it take practice

    Comment by bill shaw(tumpy) — September 28, 2008 @ 5:27 pm | Reply

  81. Tumpy-
    I’m sure he’s a dedicated to his craft kind of guy- working at it every minute of everyday.

    Comment by GW — September 28, 2008 @ 7:36 pm | Reply

  82. Billy,
    8:30 Sunday night. just opened the site and almost fell off my kithen stool laughing. You haven’t changed a bit man. that was great. I think these people say these things just to provoke and see what kind of reaction they can stir up.
    No one with a brain or on the up and up would be that STUPID.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 28, 2008 @ 7:37 pm | Reply

  83. Hey Tony………..I guess that makes 2 of us who never changed. Be good and say hello to janet

    Comment by bill shaw(tumpy) — September 29, 2008 @ 4:40 am | Reply

  84. Strongorbit, is a fitting handle. He does sound like he’s not from this planet. Perhaps when he actually arrives here he’ll ask us to take him to our leader? ;-)

    Funny how you want to insult the very fabric of this wonderfully American neighborhood. Now, go put your shoe back on Mr. Kruschev because we are unimpressed and your feet stink.

    Comment by Jerry Cole — September 29, 2008 @ 8:06 am | Reply

  85. I do envy your warm memories – a neighborhood that seems so safe and, well, homogeneous. The original article was thoughtless and simple minded (but it is the Daily News) although not many of you responded to Giosue and his treatment at Farrell’s. I think that’s because you know it’s true and will happen again. As a matter of fact, anyone who is ‘new’ is treated poorly regardless of how friendly or respectful they are to folks. This has been the consensus from a wide range of people who live there that I know (including myself) – particularly those who are not white and don’t have some sort of link to the ‘hood.
    So I would counter that WT would prefer to be exclusive to a certain socio-economic and racial segment which makes it very biased about who is ‘accepted’ and who is not. Anyone who buys property in WT, as long as they abide by the rules that you determine, should have that community acceptance, yes? I mean, just because someone wants to drink something other than what you like does not mean they’re trying to end your way of living. I’m sure similar conversations to this happened in other ‘hoods int he city as gentrification waded its way in and I can also see parallels to conversations southern whites had when they admitted blacks to schools – get my meaning?
    When I walk past Farrell’s and see one of you angry local WT peeps buying Giosue a beer then all this rhetoric about family and acceptance will have some merit. Until then you’re really just saying is “everyone non-white, homosexual or driving a foreign car – we don’t want change and we don’t want you – stay away”.

    Comment by stevesteve — September 29, 2008 @ 1:28 pm | Reply

  86. How dare you try to make this a racial/gender preference thing. You missed the whole fucking point of NEIGHBORHOOD and GROWING UP in IT.
    Who gives a shit what you drink, who you prefer to go to bed with or what color you are.
    The problem here is and lets call a spade a spade. Do you really think people aren’t going to stare at me if I walked into a gay bar in the village. Is that okay that I may feel uncomfortable, it isn’t and you know what? I would walk out as fast as I walked in.
    Stop trying to make more of this then what it is and grow the fuch up.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 29, 2008 @ 2:52 pm | Reply

  87. After reading all of these posts it really IS about protecting your turf as the blogmaster says. We all know that change is difficult at times and unwelcome at first. I was reading an article about the “gentrification” of Harlem the other day and many young white individuals who have moved to the area in the last few years are moving out. Many cite similar experiences as are noted by Giosue and echoed by Stevesteve. They talk of being chided by the older black residents as unwanted outsiders. They are often excluded from neighborhood organization meetings. So the cloth cuts both ways – Harlem is predominantly black and many residents have lived there for countless years and they want their historical and cultural perspective to remain untouched. Just like the residents of Harlem, the residents of WT are warm and inviting, but protective and wary of change. Some of the issues that are being used as examples of the barriers that the neighborhood poses for certain people are not just unique to WT but to this whole country in general.

    Comment by Alpa Chino — September 29, 2008 @ 3:33 pm | Reply

  88. @TonyF16St

    It IS important. Because you all talk about community and bringing people together, and while that is true, it has an ugly side, and that is the casting out of people who do not conform.

    The response I get from Farrell’s is UNACCEPTABLE. Stares are one thing, yells of ‘GO HOME YUPPIE FAGGOT’ when I am, in fact, living in my homestead are disgusting, and decidedly unchristian, as most of these people are proud to describe themselves as Christian, I would think they would be ashamed, but you know that whoever yelled that at me got a pat on the back once inside again.

    How’s that for community? Is that beautiful? Is that right?

    Comment by Giosue — September 29, 2008 @ 4:08 pm | Reply

  89. This topic has more responses than any previous subject. It may reach the century mark. Has gotten rather heated though. Farrells is a landmark of the neighborhood.
    I’d watch out for strongorbit. He could be Borg. Resistance is futile,you will be assimilated.

    Comment by manktelow — September 29, 2008 @ 4:09 pm | Reply

  90. Why is what we were talking about so hard to grasp? Yes we defended the comment made by Ms.Miller and Brenda. But now all these other folks are getting involved and blowing it totally out of the water. We are a bunch of WT/PS originals reminiscing about the old days and then before you know it everyone wants to get involved. Unfortunately you cannot get involved because you trully do not know what you are talking about. YOU WEREN”T BORN AND RAISED THERE you are only seeing it from an outsiders eyes. why not just mind your own business and let us do the talking amonst ourselves. We don’t mind people being inquisitive but don’t be objective.Try looking at it from our point of view. Your having a conversation with your friend and someone comes along and starts telling you what you really can give a shit less about.

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 29, 2008 @ 4:40 pm | Reply

  91. it seems that we all have our crosses to bear. giosue is outraged because he can’t walk hand in hand with his lover, as a woman i am always wary of walking past a crowd of men, be it construction workers, rowdy groups outside of bars such as Farrells, the list goes on. life is full of compromises, more for the minority, and while this is unfair life does go on. giosue, you are right; “go home yuppie faggot” is unacceptable. name-calling is a sign of insecurity and surely you recognize that. we are never going to move forward in our society if we don’t try to understand one another and come together. our disdain for one another is what will always hold us back, on both sides of the fence.

    Comment by Miss PPW — September 29, 2008 @ 8:06 pm | Reply

  92. I’ve done so much reading and remembering good times that I am flying up from Texas this Friday just to go to all the neighborhood bars[that are left] so that Ican smell that beautiful beer that the lady writer did not like and of course see some of those great Park slopers that I grew up with.
    Thanks to this blog Iam in need of a Brooklyn visit. John Bies

    Comment by John B — September 29, 2008 @ 8:08 pm | Reply

  93. One more time Giosue.I really and truely don’t give a fuck about what or who you are. Now this part I will try to make simple and less confusing for you. If a dog bites you on the hand do you stick it in his mouth a second time? Now for the good part. Why the fuck are you going in there? I am not going to get into the whole Christian thing because if we really wanted to do that then we would get to the bible and Homosexuals. and personally for the fucking 20th time I don;t give a shit. There are a 1,000 bars in W/S-P/S why please why go back to where you don’t feel accepted? what the fuck are you trying to prove? You know whats going to happen and I know whats going to happen so why do you want to risk that. All it take is one to many drinks and the next thing you know someones kicking your ass up and down 16th st.
    Lets see a show of hands,aren’t we tired of this yet?

    Comment by TonyF16St — September 29, 2008 @ 8:45 pm | Reply

  94. Jerry, Jack, Tony & the rest, thanks for saying it and putting it into small bites for GIOSUE and some of the others.

    Mr. Orbit, you are welcome to visit the launching pad.

    Brenda we hope to see you soon, we’ll schmooze, no big whoop.

    I guess we have an internal feeling summed up by the words of Joni Mitchell’s ” Big Yellow Taxi” – “Don’t it always seem to go that you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone…” We all want to keep our little piece of Brooklyn from disappearing
    and turning into Park Slope. If that make us xenophobes then you can go ahead and chuck the first rock.

    Comment by Frank Lakat — September 30, 2008 @ 12:08 pm | Reply

  95. SteveSteve,
    You completely miss the point. It’s anyone’s right to say or print something (as in Ms. Miller’s case) but it is never one’s obligation to say or write something in a derogatory fashion.
    Newcomers have been coming in and living in our community of Windsor Terrace for quite some time. I should know for I have lived here in WT for 45 years( I have gone to the schools here and still work and live in WT to this day) and have seen it(gentrification) first hand. When you say that the neighborhood wants or prefers a homogenous segment that is false for WT has always been quite diverse with various groups represented (white, latin, lesbian, gay, to name a few)
    Perhaps you should have a “cup of coffee” in the area before you make a value judgement like that or decide to paint a group of people with a broad brush so to speak. Its precisely those comments and the ones that Ms Miller made that upsets the long time decent hard working people from WT for those comments come off as real elitist and all knowing. It has largely to do with these long time WT residents who kept the area nice and respectful so that other groups found it to be a desireable destination to live. When these people are nice and respectful they is never a problem in the community. you are right in saying that people have the right to buy and live here. I agree that any law abiding person has that right. That has never been an issue in our area where people were turned down for a purchase of a house or for a rental. For you to compare a person(s) who object and who stick up to an article in the NY Daily News to segregation in the U.S. South circa 1960’s. Wow what a ridiculous stretch! No one was ever denied a drink at Farrell’s or anywhere else (except for women back in the old days) One more thing as an Irish-Catholic long time WT resident who married a Brazilian I happen to drive a Honda Odessey and a Mitsubishi Galant. So much for your foreign car theory! Finally not everyone in Farrell’s is angry( I didn’t know that you had a degree in psychology or psychiatry). I don’t hang out in Farrell’s but I was a bit offended by that article as well as were other residents who also choose not to frequent that bar. Again there you go painting a group of people with a broad brush! For someone who chose to write the things that you did I would expect a little bit more thought (but then again what would I know for I am one of those angry, unintelligent, biased, homogenous WT residents!) The difference is that I will most likely stay and live in the community of WT for the rest of my life while the newcomers will stay for a while, pass judgement before moving on to live somewhere else. I will always have more respect for the long standing WT residents for they are in it for the long haul.

    Comment by Glenn T. — October 3, 2008 @ 9:30 am | Reply

  96. Hi, I just read this blog today, I wish I was on-line when this was hot pn the writing block cause although I’ve benn away from the neighborhood over 30 years Windor/Terrace is my home and I’m proud to tell anyone who asks where I came from. After my folks (Charlie and Hilda) passed away in 95 I erected a flag pole on my property and encased their ashes in the base with a plaque with their names. It was quite the ceremony, I had the Color Guard dedicate the flag, it made the cover story in one of our local papers. Now here’s the real story. I contacted the Brooklyn Dept. of Transportation and for a box of apples(remember I grow apples) I requested and was mailed street signs reading Windsor Place and Terrace Place. The signs post my driveway. I asked my brother-in-law Kevin to climb the pole to remove the original ones but he turned me down, but I still have the next best thing. Windsor/Terrace lives on in the State of Washington. Cheers…… here’s to Farrells and all the good people I call my friends.

    Comment by Susan Carlson — March 20, 2009 @ 5:06 pm | Reply

    • How ya like dem apples!

      Comment by hoopscoach — March 20, 2009 @ 8:30 pm | Reply

  97. Sue–Could you send me some apples, please? I was wondering where you disappeared to!

    Comment by Rob Mikolajczak (Mickey) — March 22, 2009 @ 2:36 pm | Reply

  98. JUST PUTTING VOTE IN FOR THE CARD BOARD CONTAINERS ALL THE REST IS BUNCH OF SHIT

    Comment by Mudge — July 29, 2014 @ 11:16 am | Reply

    • Mudge I agree…

      Red

      Comment by hoopscoach — July 29, 2014 @ 4:22 pm | Reply


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